Heaven, again

So then, what exactly is “Heaven”? in the biblical sense?

Again, is N.T. Wright? There is no locale to which one can refer to as “heaven.”

No Heaven?

So, Is NT Wright? That “heaven” is not our home?

I admit I am not a big fan of the Bishop of Durham, he can be interesting but when reading him I constantly feel like he is trying to avoid something, not sure what it is just yet.

Here is a key quote from the CT article linked above (really an excerpt from a book):

The traditional picture of people going to either heaven or hell as a one-stage, postmortem journey represents a serious distortion and diminution of the Christian hope. Bodily resurrection is not just one odd bit of that hope. It is the element that gives shape and meaning to the rest of the story of God’s ultimate purposes. If we squeeze it to the margins, as many have done by implication, or indeed, if we leave it out altogether, as some have done quite explicitly, we don’t just lose an extra feature, like buying a car that happens not to have electrically operated mirrors. We lose the central engine, which drives it and gives every other component its reason for working. [Italics mine]

Is it just me or it this a non-sequitur? (something that doesn’t follow). How does the hope of heaven diminish the reality of the resurrection? It also seems like he is building a strawman argument because those who long for heaven do not downplay the hope of resurrection nor think they won’t be . Its a both and. I understand he has a problem with people saying we’ll be with God in heaven forever and that he is saying to be in heaven is to be with God – not in a particular location per se. Fine. However, all I see him doing is trying to redefine the terms and this really just confuses people rather than bring clarity, in my opinion.

Please feel free to dialogue with me about this. But to me this is one of the things NT Wright does best: build houses of cards with non-sequitors and straw man arguments.

What say you?

Spirit Baptism vs Fruit of the Spirit

This is a comment I put up on a Christian forum in a discussion regarding the gift of tongues.

just in case it needs clarification – it was not necessary for Jesus to speak in tongues and besides, nobody did before Pentecost (at least not in the sense we see it in Acts 2. Of course there was prophetic/spirit inspired speech in Judaism and acts of esoteric speech in other religions prior to Pentecost, but something new happened at the Pentecost event) – at Pentecost a new age of the Spirit was begun and as Jesus said at the end of Mark – with the coming of the Spirit, people will speak in new tongues, cast out demons (notice no one could but Jesus prior to Pentecost) lay hands on the sick and see healing, etc. When Jesus said the disciples would do greater works than he did, it was a reference to Pentecost and that “greater” meant not more miraculous but greater in extent, or in terms of geography since Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost in Israel. We, the people of God are to do greater works than Jesus in seeing God’s salvation to the ends of the earth.

I disagree with the notion that tongues makes one more spiritual than another who may not yet speak/pray in tongues. Evidence of one’s spiritual maturity is not tongues (or the lack thereof) but rather evidence of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23).

Also, there is no direct correlation between spiritual ministries (or gifts) and the fruit of the Spirit, per se. Certainly the fruit may be affected by one’s reception of Spirit Baptism (as in possibly somewhat accelerating their development, with the right heart and attitude of humility and repentance before God) but not the other way around. Spirit Baptism is charismatic empowerment for witness to Jesus in he world in both word and deed. The fruit of the Spirit indicate one’s spiritual maturity in Christ and takes time and effort (continual submission to the Spirit) to develop in the heart and life of the believer.

This is why I believe we often see so much disconnect between those folks who may have the Baptism of the Spirit (as seen in Acts 2:4ff) yet display little evidence of the fruit of the Spirit (spiritual maturity) and those who have great spiritual maturity (fruit of the Spirit) and yet may not have the Baptism of the Spirit (Acts 2:4ff).

Again, tongues are not an indicator of spiritual maturity but rather the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23).

I do agree with Ezra [username on the forum], love is key. This is why the “love” chapter (13) is put in between 12 and 14. Without love, the gifts most likely won’t be used and applied properly in a congregational setting. Love is to be at the heart of functioning in Spiritual ministries (or gifts). I use the term “ministries” because they are to empower and build up others, not exalt the self, which tends to happen when we use the term “gifts”, it puts the focus on the individual instead of the congregation.

Hope this helps.

Feel free to comment, I am still in process with all this in terms of trying to explain it in a way that is true to the Bible.

2 Timothy 2:19-24 (NRSV)

Read the passage below out loud. Let me know if you had to read a portion of it (or two) over again and which part. I want to see if I am not alone on tripping over a phrase (or two) in this passage. How might you smooth it out a little more?

Thanks,

(19) I hope in the Lord to send Timothy to you soon, so that I may be cheered by news of you. (20) I have no one like him who will be genuinely concerned for your welfare. (21) All of them are seeking their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ. (22) But Timothy’s worth you know, how like a son with a father he as served with me in the work of the gospel. (23) I hope therefore to send him as soon as I see how things go with me; (24) and I trust in the Lord that I will also come soon.

EJ Interview with George O. Wood pt3

George O. Wood, General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God in America on defending the Pentecostal experience:

I learned from an incredible, stellar faculty composed of the luminaries of the evangelical world at the time: George Eldon Ladd, author of Jesus and the Kingdom; Geoffrey W. Bromiley, the church historian; Wilbur M. Smith; Everett F. Harrison; Edward John Carnell. These people were just phenomenal.

I learned from these professors, but I also learned to rebut the criticism that Pentecostals base their theology on their experience. It happened this way. In my first year I took a class with Gleason L. Archer, a Harvard intellectual who had written an introduction to the Old Testament. Archer knew about 20 ancient languages, such as Sumerian and Akkadian. I had Hebrew and Old Testament with him.

In an orientation class, a different professor came each week for 2 hours and allowed us to ask questions. Some of the students got into a question and answer debate with Archer on what the phrase “husband of one wife” in 1 Timothy 3:2,12 and Titus 1:6 meant.

Archer adamantly said, “husband of one wife means that the elder or the ordained minister can only have one wife in a lifetime. If your spouse dies and you remarry, you are disqualified from that role.” I thought, I’ve never heard that before; that’s extreme.

In my second year of seminary, Archer’s wife died. In my third year, he remarried. He dressed differently, acted like he was 30 years younger than he was, and changed his view on the text 180 degrees. I said to myself, Here is one of the most educated men in the evangelical world, and his experience has helped condition his theology.

There is danger in letting your experience shape your theology. But at the same time, what we as Pentecostals have done — when we have had an experience — is look in Scripture to see if there is any warrant for it. I think that is the key test. If there is no warrant in Scripture for the experience, then we need to question the experience or, at least, not make it universal. We need to regard it as we would Peter’s shadow — a unique event — because other people are not having the same phenomenon. But we can look at our Pentecostal experience and see that it is rooted in Scripture.

Many incidents occurred at Fuller that helped me see this. In fact, Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Seminary, wrote a congratulatory note when I was elected general superintendent. I wrote back and expressed deep appreciation for the role Fuller played in my life and ministry.

It is always ironic to me that when discussing issues surrounding the Pentecostal experience with non-pentecostals that what I call the “e” word (experience) is always either downplayed or flat out not allowed, yet how many have had experiences with God that solidify their faith and or relationship with God or as Dr Archer had, he thought one way and then after an experience of losing his wife and getting remarried, changed his theology based on an experience? Yet Pentecostals are not allowed to factor in experience into Pentecostal Theology regarding the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2:4 and also the exercise of Spiritual Ministries (aka: Gifts)? How does that work?

If you want to read the interview more in full check it out at the Enrichment Journal Online here.

Feel free to let me know what you think.

EJ Interview with George O. Wood pt2

George O. Wood. General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God in America on “the call”:

When I was pastoring, I invited Morris Williams to hold a missions convention. He was field director (now called regional director) for Africa. I respected Williams. He had a sterling record as a missionary. I took him to lunch after Sunday morning service. I asked, “Brother Williams, how did you receive your call?”

He said, “George, I never had a call. I read in the Gospels where Jesus was taking volunteers, and I up and volunteered.”

I had never heard anyone give that explanation before. It challenged me. Since then I have studied the call in Scripture. I now realize there is a continuum on the call — everything from the divine voice to William’s volunteering. Certainly, God equipped Williams with the gifts and graces for his calling. God also granted me the desire of my heart. I wanted to be a minister.

When we talk about the call to ministry we need to be careful not to project that everyone is called the same way. God uses a variety of ways to put us where He wants us. For me, it was a quiet desire that began to well up in my heart. From that time on, I was on the trajectory to go into the ministry. The only other occupation I ever considered was law and politics.

When I was a junior in college I had an offer to be an intern in a congressional office. I came to a crisis at that point. I had to make a decision whether to accept that opportunity or continue toward ministry.

I like this comment because it is how things have been for me as well – I have never had this explicit “call from God” at the altar kind of experience. For me it has been more of a process of understanding my own personality, desires, values, and giftings. When I put two and two together going into the ministry be it pastoring or missions, it just made the most sense to me and it is a good fit. So if you are out there and think you have to have some awe inspiring divine call to go into the ministry then be free of that and follow God in whatever way you feel him leading you! Yes, there can be the awe inspiring divine call from God but it is not that way for all people all the time and I think that has kept some people from following the Lord in they way they sense his leading.

peace

EJ Interview with George O. Wood pt1

George O. Wood, General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God in America on the value of ministerial education:

The experience I had at Fuller made me believe that ministers need to get as deep an education as possible. When I was a younger minister, Robert Frost, one of my spiritual mentors, prayed for me and the other students. He said, “Lord, help them lay foundations that are strong enough to bear the weight You will later place on them.”

A formal theological education helps ministers build strong foundations for life and helps them avoid burnout. The reason people get burned out in the ministry is they do not have sufficient intellectual and spiritual resources to draw on to sustain them.

I walked into a pastor’s office when I was a younger minister. I looked at his library. It contained only books that were titled, Simple Sermon Outlines,and they had cobwebs on them. Some were unused. I thought to myself, This congregation is not getting fed, because he is not being fed. He will not last. This pastorate will not last.

Many ministers cannot afford to continue a formal education. Often their time and resources go toward supporting their families. But with the Internet, libraries, and the many resources available for learning, ministers have opportunity to continue their personal study and educational advancement.

Continual learning is critical. As a pastor, I spent about 20 hours a week in study and message preparation. I do not know how a pastor can feed people if he is not spending substantive time in study. The seminary experience gave me the tools, resources, and life disciplines to continue learning throughout my ministry.

This is really good stuff. Too bad so many in the AG (and other Pentecostal or Charismatic groups) tend downplay education. Many believe all that is needed is “the anointing” and the Holy Spirit – but it hard for the Spirit to do much with someone who doesn’t know anything…

Early Easter.

Apparently, yesterday was the earliest Easter any of us will see in our lifetime.
I lifted this from the Biblical Studies e-list.
————–

Easter 2008

A once in a lifetime experience !

Easter is always the 1st Sunday after the 1st full moon after March
20. This dating of Easter is based on the lunar calendar that Hebrew
people used to identify passover, which is why it moves around on our
Roman calendar.

This year is the earliest Easter any of us will ever see.

And only the most elderly of our population have ever seen it this
early (95 years old or above) And none of us have ever, or will
ever, see it a day earlier.

1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was
1913 (so if you’re 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
around for that).

2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the
year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22 was
1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier
than this year.

He is Risen!

Luke 24:5-7 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’”

Were these women the world first Christian Missionaries?

9When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.

Here is the point of Easter: Jesus is ALIVE! He is risen from the dead! And in him we can have new life! A Resurrection life!

May you be blessed this particular resurrection Sunday!

missions quote of the day.

But things have changed. I have been in a missions convention where I was the only person who knew a foreign language, where I was the only field based worker, where I was the only person actually engaging lost people on a regular basis. During a year at one of our schools and in touring 10 of our colleges on a preaching and teaching tour sharing the vision for the least-reached in Asia Pacific I have not yet once been approached by a person of any age who says, “I want to go to a place and spend the rest of my life where the church does not exist and preach the Gospel and plant the church of Jesus Christ. People tell me they want to lead teams, that they want to travel to “lots of countries,” that they want to get a seminary degree and go teach somewhere, that they want to find a place that uses English to go pastor, that they want to travel and do crusades, or hold babies in an orphanage. The list goes on and on. These activities are not wrong in and of themselves. In the context of Assemblies of God missions we have always done these things, and for the most part they are good things. But at the same time we did not get to 50-plus million adherents world wide with a cross-cultural staff that saw any of these activities as the controlling center of what they were about. The center of our labors has always been evangelism, church planting, and the training of national ministers.

-Alan Johnson regarding the decline in emphasis on cross-cultural missions in the Assemblies of God in America. I think it could be applicable to more than just the Assemblies of God – I think emphasis on cross-cultural mission has been in decline in the American church at large.

Also, please know my post on missions is not targeted at those who cannot go or are unable to go.

If you want to see the rest of the paper go here.